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	<title>Comments for Charting Transport</title>
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	<link>http://chartingtransport.com</link>
	<description>Looking at transport through graphs and maps</description>
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		<title>Comment on What&#8217;s driving Melbourne public transport patronage? by Julie</title>
		<link>http://chartingtransport.com/2012/02/12/whats-driving-melbourne-public-transport-patronage/#comment-661</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Julie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 05:43:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chartingtransport.wordpress.com/?p=145#comment-661</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The first chart IS actually quite linear in sections (although the gradient is greater than 1 so logically there must be more going on than population growth).  The second chart is no more linear than the first; only the wiggly bits at the end are cut off as the time period is different.  These two charts look basically the same to me, which is probably due to inner city population remaining the same proportion of total population over that time period. 

It&#039;s probably quite difficult to tease out all of the inter-dependencies between different factors when you don&#039;t have a lot of data points, but did you consider plotting the charts with time on the x-axis and the ratio of patronage to possible driving factor (eg trips per head of population) on the y-axis? A direct 1-1 relationship would then be a flat line and it would be easier to see the time periods where different relationships applied.  This would still be a very rough proxy of a multilinear regression and driver analysis, but at least it would be easier to compare the (possible) influence of different factors at different times.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The first chart IS actually quite linear in sections (although the gradient is greater than 1 so logically there must be more going on than population growth).  The second chart is no more linear than the first; only the wiggly bits at the end are cut off as the time period is different.  These two charts look basically the same to me, which is probably due to inner city population remaining the same proportion of total population over that time period. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s probably quite difficult to tease out all of the inter-dependencies between different factors when you don&#8217;t have a lot of data points, but did you consider plotting the charts with time on the x-axis and the ratio of patronage to possible driving factor (eg trips per head of population) on the y-axis? A direct 1-1 relationship would then be a flat line and it would be easier to see the time periods where different relationships applied.  This would still be a very rough proxy of a multilinear regression and driver analysis, but at least it would be easier to compare the (possible) influence of different factors at different times.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Public transport patronage trends in Australasian cities by Links for urbanists No. 5 &#171; The Melbourne Urbanist</title>
		<link>http://chartingtransport.com/2010/11/13/public-transport-patronage-trends/#comment-556</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Links for urbanists No. 5 &#171; The Melbourne Urbanist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Dec 2011 08:26:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chartingtransport.wordpress.com/?p=589#comment-556</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Public transport patronage trends in Australasian cities &#8211; updated [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Public transport patronage trends in Australasian cities &#8211; updated [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Public transport patronage trends in Australasian cities by Harold Winthrop</title>
		<link>http://chartingtransport.com/2010/11/13/public-transport-patronage-trends/#comment-542</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Harold Winthrop]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2011 04:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chartingtransport.wordpress.com/?p=589#comment-542</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Chris, it&#039;s interesting that CityRail never really recovered from the Olympics patronage &#039;spike&#039;. Or alternatively, there was less new (Perth) or underused capacity (Melbourne) to be soaked up post-2000. Am I right in thinking Melbourne&#039;s patronage in 2006 excludes the Comm. Games &#039;spike&#039;? 
HW]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Chris, it&#8217;s interesting that CityRail never really recovered from the Olympics patronage &#8216;spike&#8217;. Or alternatively, there was less new (Perth) or underused capacity (Melbourne) to be soaked up post-2000. Am I right in thinking Melbourne&#8217;s patronage in 2006 excludes the Comm. Games &#8216;spike&#8217;?<br />
HW</p>
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		<title>Comment on Public transport patronage trends in Australasian cities by chrisloader</title>
		<link>http://chartingtransport.com/2010/11/13/public-transport-patronage-trends/#comment-540</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[chrisloader]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Nov 2011 23:53:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chartingtransport.wordpress.com/?p=589#comment-540</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Olympics patronage is included. The higher PT boardings per capita figure for Sydney 2000-01 will almost certainly be explained by the Olympics.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Olympics patronage is included. The higher PT boardings per capita figure for Sydney 2000-01 will almost certainly be explained by the Olympics.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Public transport patronage trends in Australasian cities by Harold Winthrop</title>
		<link>http://chartingtransport.com/2010/11/13/public-transport-patronage-trends/#comment-539</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Harold Winthrop]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Nov 2011 21:51:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chartingtransport.wordpress.com/?p=589#comment-539</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Chris, great piece of work here to pull things together. It&#039;s important to have this baseline data to refer to. 

Just one minor question about the Sydney heavy rail data - do the 2000/2001 numbers have Olympic patronage out or in? Once again, great stuff. 

HW]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, great piece of work here to pull things together. It&#8217;s important to have this baseline data to refer to. </p>
<p>Just one minor question about the Sydney heavy rail data &#8211; do the 2000/2001 numbers have Olympic patronage out or in? Once again, great stuff. </p>
<p>HW</p>
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		<title>Comment on Evidence of mode shift in Australian cities (BITRE data) by Are congestion costs going to double? An analysis of vehicle kms in Australian cities &#171; Charting Transport</title>
		<link>http://chartingtransport.com/2010/01/08/evidence-of-mode-shift-in-australian-cities-bitre-data/#comment-480</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Are congestion costs going to double? An analysis of vehicle kms in Australian cities &#171; Charting Transport]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Oct 2011 13:28:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chartingtransport.wordpress.com/?p=7#comment-480</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] another post, I used BITRE yearbook data on motorised passenger kms per capita. BITRE Report 124 only includes [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] another post, I used BITRE yearbook data on motorised passenger kms per capita. BITRE Report 124 only includes [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Useful references by Martin Prahran</title>
		<link>http://chartingtransport.com/useful-references/#comment-455</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Martin Prahran]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2011 05:20:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chartingtransport.wordpress.com/?page_id=121#comment-455</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi ABS analysis gurus 
There is a problem in VCAT Planning cases, where partisan developer Experts  quote ABS car ownership rates for &#039;Flat Unit or Apartment in a 4 or more storey block&#039;  that severly understate the true figure. They do this by including undisclosed, a significant number of Office of Housing (OOH) towers.    E.g. for Melbourne-Prahran, best I can make of (shaky) Cdata analysis is that 1 bedroom rate jumps from 0.4 to 0.8 when OOH is excluded. But my analysis is generally frustrated by randomization - numbers for Melbourne-Windsor turn negative when OOH is removed!  

Big ask I know, but there is a vital need to publish proper tables from reliable, expensive ABS Tablebuilder type stats for all State Sburb names (within LGA bounds) for the real parking rates in such blocks, inclusive and exclusive of the Llandlord type of &#039;State Housing Authority&#039;.
VCAT is digging us into a hole here!
thanks
 Martin]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi ABS analysis gurus<br />
There is a problem in VCAT Planning cases, where partisan developer Experts  quote ABS car ownership rates for &#8216;Flat Unit or Apartment in a 4 or more storey block&#8217;  that severly understate the true figure. They do this by including undisclosed, a significant number of Office of Housing (OOH) towers.    E.g. for Melbourne-Prahran, best I can make of (shaky) Cdata analysis is that 1 bedroom rate jumps from 0.4 to 0.8 when OOH is excluded. But my analysis is generally frustrated by randomization &#8211; numbers for Melbourne-Windsor turn negative when OOH is removed!  </p>
<p>Big ask I know, but there is a vital need to publish proper tables from reliable, expensive ABS Tablebuilder type stats for all State Sburb names (within LGA bounds) for the real parking rates in such blocks, inclusive and exclusive of the Llandlord type of &#8216;State Housing Authority&#8217;.<br />
VCAT is digging us into a hole here!<br />
thanks<br />
 Martin</p>
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		<title>Comment on What&#8217;s happening with car occupancy? by chrisloader</title>
		<link>http://chartingtransport.com/2011/08/20/whats-happening-with-car-occupancy/#comment-438</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[chrisloader]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Aug 2011 13:58:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chartingtransport.wordpress.com/?p=1117#comment-438</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Tony,

I&#039;ve discovered I was using the wrong field hence the strange occupancy by hour figures. I&#039;ve been using the &#039;stops&#039; table, and &quot;STARTHOUR&quot; appears to apply for this leg, while &quot;DEPHOUR&quot; appears to be for the next trip from the destination location (not sure why). I needed to use &quot;STARTHOUR&quot; and I&#039;ve now replaced the chart and it looks much more sensible.

To derive &quot;trip purpose&quot;, I use the destination purpose. unless the destination is &quot;go home&quot; - in which case I use the origin purpose instead. It gets around the 49% &quot;go home&quot; problem, but it does mean that the last non-home activity in a trip chain will be counted twice. I probably should have explained that.

Don&#039;t disagree with your point about all car kms on the road between 8 and 9 am. There will be some school drop off trips that start before 8 am, but a lot more work trips that start before 8 am, and work trips are generally much longer too.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Tony,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve discovered I was using the wrong field hence the strange occupancy by hour figures. I&#8217;ve been using the &#8216;stops&#8217; table, and &#8220;STARTHOUR&#8221; appears to apply for this leg, while &#8220;DEPHOUR&#8221; appears to be for the next trip from the destination location (not sure why). I needed to use &#8220;STARTHOUR&#8221; and I&#8217;ve now replaced the chart and it looks much more sensible.</p>
<p>To derive &#8220;trip purpose&#8221;, I use the destination purpose. unless the destination is &#8220;go home&#8221; &#8211; in which case I use the origin purpose instead. It gets around the 49% &#8220;go home&#8221; problem, but it does mean that the last non-home activity in a trip chain will be counted twice. I probably should have explained that.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t disagree with your point about all car kms on the road between 8 and 9 am. There will be some school drop off trips that start before 8 am, but a lot more work trips that start before 8 am, and work trips are generally much longer too.</p>
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		<title>Comment on What&#8217;s happening with car occupancy? by Tony</title>
		<link>http://chartingtransport.com/2011/08/20/whats-happening-with-car-occupancy/#comment-437</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tony]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Aug 2011 01:39:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chartingtransport.wordpress.com/?p=1117#comment-437</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks again Chris.

Couple of comments.  First, you&#039;re right to suspect a quirk in the VISTA data to explain why there&#039;s an obvious peak in occupancy at school drop-off time but not at pick-up time.  This appears to be a direct result of the VISTA design accounting for each leg of a trip separately.

In the afternoon, the trip from home to school will have its purpose coded as &#039;pick up someone&#039; but with only one person in the car, while the return trip with passengers will most likely be coded as &#039;go home&#039;.  I&#039;ve noticed you don&#039;t have &#039;go home&#039; included as a trip purpose, so your data must be accounting for go-home trips some other way.  The VISTA database provides data for trips linked into &#039;home-based chains&#039;, but this isn&#039;t really what you want either.

The problem is that if school trips are being accounted in a way that excludes the go-home stage, it will greatly overestimate occupancy in the morning and underestimate it in the afternoon.

But one valid reason for the afternoon pick-up not being so prominent is that there&#039;s more of a tendency by working parents to use after-school care rather than before-school care, which tends to spread the pick-up peak over later times.

One other thing to keep in mind about the effect of school drop-offs on peak hour traffic congestion, is that even if school runs account for 19% of vehicle-kilometres for trips *starting* between 8am and 9am, that doesn&#039;t mean 19% of cars on the road between 8am and 9am are doing school runs.  There&#039;s an increasing tendency for journeys to work to commence before 8am, and to take longer.  So in that busiest hour you&#039;re also going to see a lot of cars on the road making trips that commenced before 8am.  But relatively few school runs commence before 8am (unless they&#039;re combined with work trips), so that 19% is in practice quite a bit less.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks again Chris.</p>
<p>Couple of comments.  First, you&#8217;re right to suspect a quirk in the VISTA data to explain why there&#8217;s an obvious peak in occupancy at school drop-off time but not at pick-up time.  This appears to be a direct result of the VISTA design accounting for each leg of a trip separately.</p>
<p>In the afternoon, the trip from home to school will have its purpose coded as &#8216;pick up someone&#8217; but with only one person in the car, while the return trip with passengers will most likely be coded as &#8216;go home&#8217;.  I&#8217;ve noticed you don&#8217;t have &#8216;go home&#8217; included as a trip purpose, so your data must be accounting for go-home trips some other way.  The VISTA database provides data for trips linked into &#8216;home-based chains&#8217;, but this isn&#8217;t really what you want either.</p>
<p>The problem is that if school trips are being accounted in a way that excludes the go-home stage, it will greatly overestimate occupancy in the morning and underestimate it in the afternoon.</p>
<p>But one valid reason for the afternoon pick-up not being so prominent is that there&#8217;s more of a tendency by working parents to use after-school care rather than before-school care, which tends to spread the pick-up peak over later times.</p>
<p>One other thing to keep in mind about the effect of school drop-offs on peak hour traffic congestion, is that even if school runs account for 19% of vehicle-kilometres for trips *starting* between 8am and 9am, that doesn&#8217;t mean 19% of cars on the road between 8am and 9am are doing school runs.  There&#8217;s an increasing tendency for journeys to work to commence before 8am, and to take longer.  So in that busiest hour you&#8217;re also going to see a lot of cars on the road making trips that commenced before 8am.  But relatively few school runs commence before 8am (unless they&#8217;re combined with work trips), so that 19% is in practice quite a bit less.</p>
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		<title>Comment on What&#8217;s happening with car occupancy? by Louise</title>
		<link>http://chartingtransport.com/2011/08/20/whats-happening-with-car-occupancy/#comment-436</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Louise]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Aug 2011 22:29:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chartingtransport.wordpress.com/?p=1117#comment-436</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have finished reading yet, just wanted to get in a comment about occupancy rates of 4WD&#039;s - I have personally been in the hearing of quite a few people who said once they had more than one kid they needed a 4WD. Never having had one &amp; considering them inappropriate for cities/suburbs, I do not understand the attraction or the perceived need!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have finished reading yet, just wanted to get in a comment about occupancy rates of 4WD&#8217;s &#8211; I have personally been in the hearing of quite a few people who said once they had more than one kid they needed a 4WD. Never having had one &amp; considering them inappropriate for cities/suburbs, I do not understand the attraction or the perceived need!</p>
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